Monday, June 27, 2022

Chapter 26: Eve's Herbs vs. 5 US Supreme Court Justices and the Christian Right

Sit and dunk pennyroyal tea
Distill the life that's inside of me
Sit and dunk pennyroyal tea

I'm anemic royalty.

An eye-opening, paradigm-busting review of Riddle's book appeared in THE AMERICAN HERBAL COUNCIL's HerbalGram issue 45, and is reproduced in full at the end of this chapter.

The author of the review correctly points out that herbalists of old knew what they were doing with the herbs they used to prevent pregnancy and cause miscarriage, but is that knowledge still around today? 

Meanwhile, being a lawyer and all, I can't help shooting off my mouth a bit more.

I have had women tell me that no man has standing to talk about abortion. 

Assuming that is correct, the male US Supreme Court Justices should have recused themselves in the case that overturned Roe v. Wade.

Alas, what women think about who has standing to talk about abortion perhaps is a great law school exam question, but otherwise is irrelevant in the context what actually happened.

You don't have to be an 80-year-old white male lawyer like me to see there is nothing in the US Constitution about contraceptives or abortion.

Or that, before the US Constitution, is the US Declaration of Independence, which says:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

Note, "among which". 

So, clearly there were other unalienable rights that were not named, which men enjoyed. White men, actually.

What were the unnamed unalienable rights? 

To dominate women? 

To dominate non-white people? 

Hmmm.

Did women in America have even 1 unalienable right when the Declaration of Independence was signed?

Well?

In pursuit of happiness, did women have the right not to conceive?

The right to abort unwanted pregnancies?

Well?

Certainly not, if you ask the 5 Christian-Right United States Supreme Court Justices, who overturned Roe v. Wade, Etc. 

Certainly not, if you ask the Pope.

Certainly not, if you ask any antiabortionist in America today.

Ridiculous! Preposterous! The Devil's handiwork! For women to have such unalienable rights!

And, to use herbs God made to enforce those rights?😊

Hold those thoughts, while I share with you what a woman I met when I lived in Key West posted at her Facebook, and what I replied to her.


Sloan Bashinsky
Never knew an anti-abortionist, who, to prevent an abortion, offered to adopt, love and raise or financially support a pregnant woman’s unwanted unborn. What the antiabortionists really want is lots more welfare babies, and lots more babies being raised by mothers who don’t want and resent and abuse their children. I wonder what Lady Karma might be dreaming for anti- abortionists’ next lifetimes on Planet Earth. The framers of the US Constitution knew women used certain plants to cause miscarriage. It was the same in Jesus’s and Moses’ times. All this is just religious fanatics ignoring the very plants God created, which women used for aeons to end unwanted pregnancies.

sloanbashinsky@yahoo.com

American Botanical Council review of John Riddle's book, Eve's Herbs: A History of Contraception and Abortion in the West

https://www.herbalgram.org/resources/herbalgram/issues/45/table-of-contents/article763/?fbclid=IwAR14lJCMDUwvDFYQb1rSckQuBCumskxWkiLhtEyvps8h4lfLJ2iSYLfuuVk

Eve's Herbs: A History of Contraception and Abortion in the West.
John M. Riddle. 1997. 341, pages ISBN: 0674270266

By
Burkhard Bilger 

A few years ago, when obscure herbs and botanical remedies were just beginning to reappear in American stores, my wife and I developed a taste for pennyroyal tea. Our food co-op sold herbs in bulk, from glass canisters and funky smelling barrels, so Jennifer and I had no recipes to follow. We knew only that the pennyroyal plant was a member of the mint family, and that when we steeped its pale-blue flowers in hot water they gave off a heady, amber-colored essence. The tea had a flavor of mint that was not quite peppermint, with a certain melancholy sweetness about it like chamomile, and for a while we drank it nearly every day.

It happens that, around the same period, Jennifer became pregnant for the first time. In retrospect, there were signs of trouble from the beginning -- her hormone levels weren't rising as they should, and she seemed to be losing some color -- but we managed to shrug them off in the excitement. There were names to choose, birthing classes to schedule, and our doctor didn't seem overly concerned.

Then one night, I woke up to find Jennifer clutching herself and crying, and within an hour the pregnancy was over.

A miscarriage is a peculiar sort of tragedy: a reversal of fortune so sudden and absolute it feels like a judgment, a guilty secret. But miscarriages are also extremely common -- a third of all first pregnancies end in them -- and many of our friends, we suddenly discovered, had had to endure more than one. Like them, we learned to credit our loss, however halfheartedly, to the body's vigilance, to think of it as a test run, a tune-up.

About a year later, though, something happened to change my mind. I was sitting in our living room, listening to a song by the rock group Nirvana, when the singer's keening carried a few words above the noise:

Sit and dunk pennyroyal tea

Distill the life that's inside of me

Sit and dunk pennyroyal tea

I'm anemic royalty.

It was a kind of sinister nursery rhyme, innocent on its surface but appalling once decoded. Pennyroyal, we came to learn, is an abortifacient, an old friend to "luckless girls in need," as the Nebraskan novelist Mari Sandoz once wrote. Too much of it can damage the liver and cause convulsions, coma or even death. A little less can end a pregnancy.

A thousand, two thousand, even three thousand years ago, Jennifer and I would have known that. Any midwife in ancient Athens could have told us about the penny-royal in her garden. And we would have laughed, during a comedy by Aristophanes, to hear Hermes advise the hero to "add a dose of pennyroyal" to keep his mistress out of trouble. Had we lived in Persia at the time of the Islamic empire, Jennifer might have taken pennyroyal as a contraceptive, along with pomegranate pulp, willow leaf, and colocynth. And in 18th-century London, her copy of The Experienced Midwife would have explained that pennyroyal "hastens the menses" -- an old euphemism for abortion.

But we live in an impoverished age for herbal lore, when pennyroyal and pomegranate have given way to the pill, and midwives to physicians. Herbs are considered mostly harmless -- good for cooking and the occasional sore throat. Even their extracts, sold as nutritional supplements in drugstores, carry labels that barely hint at their uses. Modem medicine, it seems, has finished off what parish priests, grand inquisitors, and temperance leagues began: it has made people forget the drugs in their own backyards. Not so long ago herbs were a woman's secret weapon, a magic bullet against reproductive demands at home and at church. Now they're a secret affliction -- a curse courted by accident, encrypted by a song.

The irony is that contraceptives have never been more badly needed. In spite of dramatic advances in reproductive science, more than half of all pregnancies in the United States are unintended, and a quarter end in abortions. Contraceptives are safer and more effective than ever, but they can also be expensive, troublesome, and prone to side effects. For years, family-planning specialists have promised more convenient alternatives: vaccines, "morning after" pills, painless implants, and male contraceptives. But when new drugs do materialize -- such as the abortion pill RU 486, or mifepristone -- they become ensnared in lawsuits, drug regulations, and religious protests.

Along the way, vital information gets lost. Only 36 percent of adult Americans, according to a recent poll, know that a dose of birth-control pills can prevent pregnancy even three days after sex.

In Eve's Herbs John M. Riddle shows just how much more has been forgotten. A historian at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, Riddle works his way from Egyptian papyrus to papal bull, medieval antidotarium to Victorian nostrum, tracing the slow erasure of herbal lore in the West across three millennia. Riddle aims, above all, to reveal the hidden history of abortion -- to prove that women practiced it as a matter of course long before Jane Roe. But his work makes an even more telling political point, albeit indirectly: the same forces that once repressed pennyroyal and other herbs are keeping new contraceptives off the market today.

When historians mourn the lost wonders of the ancient world they tend to mean the Colossus of Rhodes or the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Pharos of Alexandria or the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. To that list, Riddle might add one seemingly unremarkable candidate: a species of giant fennel known as silphium to the Romans, that once grew in North Africa. In the seventh century B.C., a band of Greek settlers from Thera founded the city of Cyrene, in what is now Libya. "What they found," Riddle writes, "must have made them question the oracle's advice to go there." The landscape was parched, the people unfriendly and Greece dishearteningly distant. But Cyrene, it turned out, had a single asset -- silphium -- that was enough to make the colony rich.

As a condiment or cough syrup, silphium was already pretty good. But as a contraceptive it had no equal. According to the second century Greek physician Soranus, the juice from a chickpea-size portion, taken once a month, was enough to do the trick. To the delight of the Cyrenians, and the everlasting dismay of everyone else, the plant grew exclusively in North Africa, along a 30-mile strip near the city. When it failed to transplant to Syria and Greece, prices rose quickly, as did harvests. By the beginning of the first century A.D., silphium was more costly than silver by weight. Three centuries after that it was extinct.

Silphium was the aristocrat's contraceptive -- the classical equivalent of lambskin condoms. But contraceptives of any kind were beyond the ken of common folk, or so most historians have held. Peasants hardly knew the connection between sex and pregnancy, the reasoning goes, much less which plants might inhibit conception. To counter such arguments. Riddle presents a chart of the declining birthrate in ancient Greece -- from 5.0 births per female in 2000 B.C. to 3.3 in 120 A.D. "How did they do it?" he asks. Infanticide, some historians answer But then why are women's skeletons from ancient sites scarred by so few childbirths? Chastity, one might venture. But sexual restraint, as Riddle writes, "was not a quality about which the ancients could boast or lament."

The best answer seems to be the obvious one: the common folk were not as ignorant as they seemed. For centuries farmers must have noted how plants could affect their pregnant livestock -- according to some estimates nearly a third of all miscarriages among animals are caused by plants. Mothers and midwives must then have passed on the information and refined it in what Riddle calls, with a touch of melodrama, a "chain of learning...forged by vocal cords."

By the time of the Greeks the seeds of herbal lore first cultivated in Egypt had grown into a pharmacopoeia. Socrates, in one of Plato's dialogues, tells a student that "midwives, by means of drugs and incantations, are able to arouse the pangs of labor and, if they wish...cause miscarriages." (Socrates would have known: his mother was a midwife.) Some of those drugs are disconcertingly familiar. Celery, dates, and figs made the lineup, next to suspicious characters such as motherwort and birthwort. And although death carrot and black cohosh sound like known felons, it is surprising to see parsley, sage. rosemary, and thyme among their ranks. The ancient sources are far from infallible, of course. "If a woman takes a frog and spits into its open mouth three times," one early physician recommended, "she will not conceive for a year." But modem pharmacological studies back up the ancient witnesses more often than not. One study found, for instance, that a diet of figs and fig leav es can reduce mouse litters by more than half. (No wonder Pacific islanders were still using figs as contraceptives as recently as the 1970s.)

At certain dosages, other plants seem even more effective: aloe, artemisia, corn mint and Queen Anne's lace consistently prevent or end pregnancy in rats, and birthwort, pomegranate and squirting cucumber can be just as potent.

Sixty-five years ago German chemists discovered that date palms contain compounds identical to female sex hormones, ushering in a new era of plant studies. Since then herbal contraceptives have been found to work in numerous ways. Corn mint keeps an embryo from implanting; seeds from the chaste tree, one of the rare male contraceptives mentioned in ancient texts, disrupt sperm production. Abortifacients, predictably, work by more brutal means: rue, for instance, poisons the body until it gives up on the fetus.

All things considered, ancient Greece was a kind of golden age for family planning -- even more so than for art and philosophy. Antifertility herbs were well known and widely used and though there were some strictures against abortion (the Hippocratic oath may or may not have forbidden it, depending on the translation), contraception was never regulated. But then, century by century, statute by statute, the screws tightened. Among the Romans, contraception was tolerated, but prescribing an abortifacient could get you exiled -- to the mines if you were poor, or to an island if you were rich. By the early Middle Ages priests were asking women in confession, "Have you drunk any maleficium so that you could not have children?" If the answer was yes, the sinner had to do penance for 40 days -- a slap on the wrist by later standards.

In the scriptural debates and witch-hunts that would follow one can see prefigured, as if in an allegorical painting, the Supreme Court decisions and clinic shootings of today. In Italy during the late Middle Ages members of a fertility sect known as I Benandanti, or the do-gooders, would stage symbolic duels in forest clearings with local witches, who probably practiced birth control and abortion. For weapons, the Benandanti wielded stalks of fennel, which was thought to prevent abortions, whereas the witches had stalks of sorghum, which contains an abortifacient alkaloid. Exchange the plants for placards and you have a modern-day abortion fracas, pitched outside a family-planning center.

Both groups were eventually rooted out by the Inquisition, which had no tolerance for fertility cults of any stripe. But the true tragic figures of the period were the midwives and "wise women." For centuries they had preserved recipes for contraceptives and abortifacients, tending to women and filling in where physicians were ignorant. Now they were caught in a pincer movement. On one side was the Roman Catholic Church, declaring ever more strictly in favor of procreation and fetal rights, until even sperm were suspected of having souls. On the other side was the medical establishment, which grew less tolerant as it grew more professional.

By the 14th century, Riddle writes, physicians, surgeons, apothecaries, and even barbers had to be licensed to practice. University degrees were a prerequisite, but women were not allowed to earn them and so were effectively shut out of medical practice. Wise women, once honored members of their communities, became vulgares or illiterati mulieres, their healing arts dismissed as mere folklore or, increasingly, witchcraft. Physicians had never learned much gynecology; now, with the church's help, they demonized what they did not know. "Midwives were the victims of a vicious syllogism," Riddle writes. "To know the secrets was to be a witch: it was necessary to know the secrets to be a midwife; therefore, a midwife is a witch." Or, as one church dictum put it: "If a woman dare to cure without having studied, she is a witch and must die."

The people took the church at its word: of the half-million witches burned at the stake in western Europe between 1450 and 1700, more than a third, in some areas, were midwives, and nearly all were women. King James I of England best conveyed the prevailing philosophy: "The more women, the more witches."

The result, in gynecological terms alone, was a disaster. The midwives' simple prescriptions, most of which could be filled in any herb garden, were gradually replaced by complicated concoctions with exotic ingredients -- the precursors of today's patented drugs. One 16th-century "menstrual regulator" contained more than 25 ingredients. "It is such a mess," a commentator later wrote, "I verily think the labour and cost of it put in an equal balance would outweigh the benefit."

A medieval woman could still step into an apothecary and buy a decent contraceptive. "What she lacked," Riddle says, were the "precise, careful, and expert directions midwives had once offered. And what of the women who never made it to an apothecary? Chances were they fell prey to the fabulous fictions in which medieval minds seemed to specialize. "Let a woman eat a bee and she shall never conceive," recommended one 14th-century book. Others put more stock in sapphire jewelry, rabbit stomachs, or mule uteruses as contraceptives; vulture feces, donkey dung, or the "oil of philosophers" as abortifacients. Physicians and prelates, so intent on dispelling superstition, effectively conjured it up instead.

It was to be more than 500 years before medicine replaced what it had helped destroy. As late as the 19th century, Riddle writes, physicians "were less aware of what women were doing, and women were themselves less knowledgeable, than their forebears thousands of years before." In 1877, for instance, a contraceptive guide called Fruits of Philosophy: the Private Companion of Young Married People, caused an uproar -- one judge called it "a...dirty, filthy book" and proceeded to fine its publisher. Yet any woman could have gotten more and better information at her local library from works by Hippocrates.

Thank goodness those days are over, one is tempted to say after reading Riddle's book. And in ways both tearful and encouraging, this is the true heyday of family planning. Nearly 40 years after the pill was invented, investigators are still perfecting ways to deliver hormones to the body, even as breakthroughs in biochemistry are pointing to entire new categories of contraceptives. In the spring of 1996, after a 20-year search, molecular biologists identified the protein (or proteins) that sperm cells use to bind with eggs. (In fact, three separate teams identified three distinct proteins -- which one is the real McCoy remains to be seen.) In addition, investigators have found ways to immobilize sperm; to "blind" them to the presence of an egg, and to induce men to produce antibodies that shut down sperm production. Every new approach, in theory, could give birth to a revolutionary new drug.

"It's really Wild West out there," says Elof D. B. Johansson, a vice president of the Population Council in New York City and director of its Center for Biomedical Research. "Basic research has come up with so many possible leads, and all of them are being tested." Testosterone injections for men -- painful, but effective -- have been shown to prevent conception, and other such contraceptives are in the works. The Population Council alone has two in early clinical trials: a vaccine and a synthetic steroid, both of which have proved effective in male rats. Investigators in India, meanwhile, are preparing to test a vaccine for women in a massive human trial -- the final step before the vaccine can be sold to the public.

Yet for all the commotion on the frontier next contraceptives are likely to remain a distant murmur. Even their greatest boosters tend to sound like physicists discussing the future of fusion power: with any luck, they say, the new vaccines may be around "in the first third of the 21st century." Although the world population will double in the next half century, and although some 228 million women lack effective contraceptives, birth control remains a risky business economically, culturally, and politically. The Middle Ages, in some ways, are still with us.

In the past two decades, eight out of 12 major pharmaceutical companies have stopped developing new contraceptives. The science is there, it seems, but the numbers are not. Developing a new contraceptive and getting it approved can cost as much as $500 million -- and then the real costs kick in. Contraceptives are powerful drugs, prone to side effects. Given that they are also designed for healthy users, who are likely to notice such side effects, they are natural targets for lawsuits. Copper intrauterine devices (IUDs) and the Norplant system, two long-term contraceptives, have both been crippled by litigation, though none of the charges has stuck. "We can find no scientific or medical basis for these litigations," Johansson says, "But they're enormously costly and they drive sales down to the bottom -- it's a double whammy." The same mixture of fear and perfectionism once suppressed herbal contraceptives when no better alternatives existed.

True, abortionists are no longer burned at the stake, but religious protests can still kill a new drug. It has been nearly 10 years, for instance, since the abortion drug RU 486 was approved in France. In that time French women have come to prefer it over surgical abortions two-to-one, and more than 200,000 women have used it safely. Yet RU 486 still cannot be sold in the United States. President Clinton originally scheduled the drug for fast-track approval, but protests from Christian and pro-life groups soon stalled the process. Last year the drug seemed ready for release at last. Then its Hungarian manufacturer, Gideon Richter, pulled out suddenly, consigning RU 486 to limbo once again.

The worst knock against the new drugs, ironically, is that they are too convenient. Pro-life groups object to RU 486 mainly because it makes having an abortion too easy. And female vaccines have drawn the ire both of women's groups and Catholics (no small feat) precisely because they promise to be cheap and effective. Longterm vaccines would be so easy to administer, both groups say, that governments might well foist them on unsuspecting women. In the Philippines three years ago, Catholic activists accused health authorities of slipping contraceptive vaccines into tetanus shots. The charges proved groundless, but not before they had kept thousands of women from getting the shots.

And so it goes, each new drug stumbling over a different set of trip wires. In 1990 and again in 1996, committees at the Institute of Medicine in Washington, D.C., suggested some ways to clear the path. The federal government could protect the makers of contraceptives against excessive liability as it does the makers of vaccines. Or a central agency could purchase and distribute contraceptives in bulk. Or insurers could cover contraceptive costs, recognizing that unintended pregnancies cost far more in the long term. But political will is lacking. The countries most likely to pay for new contraceptives are looking for ways to raise their fertility rates, not lower them. Singapore, for instance, has an entire bureaucracy devoted to matchmaking, and France rewards large families with government stipends. Population control is fine and good, such policies imply, as long as it's practiced somewhere else.

No wonder some women are turning back to herbs. In the past five years, as food and drug regulations have loosened, herb sales in the United States have doubled. Disenchanted with modern medicine, people have begun taking echinacea to fend off colds, ginkgo to sharpen memory, and any number of herbs to prevent pregnancy. More and more, a trip to a health-food store or vitamin shop can feel like a visit to a medieval apothecary. Jars of odd-colored powders and tinctures line the shelves, their labels promising vaguely to "promote well-being," their contents largely unregulated.

There is a certain bittersweet quality to the sight of all those ancient remedies, reemerging after centuries underground. But nostalgia can be dangerous where contraceptives are concerned. Unscrupulous manufacturers aside, herbs are unpredictable by nature. Depending on where and how they are grown, what part of the plant is used and how they are processed, herbs can have a host of different effects. Standardized herbal extracts dodge some of those uncertainties, but dosages remain largely guesswork. Two years ago, when Consumer Reports tested 10 ginseng products, one contained virtually no ginseng at all; the concentrations in the others varied by 1,000 percent. Medieval customers, at least, had midwives and apothecaries to guide them. But today's pharmacists know little if anything about herbs.

In the epilogue to Eve's Herbs, Riddle describes a dinner party he once attended in the Appalachian Mountains of North Carolina. He was telling a public health nurse named Mary about his research, he says, when she mentioned that some of her clients were taking an herbal contraceptive. Intrigued, Riddle asked her what part of the plant they were eating and whether they took it before or after sex.

"Told that the seed was ingested after intercourse, I guessed that they were taking Queen Anne's lace, about a tablespoon. It was then Mary's turn to be surprised, and she asked how I knew.

Ignoring her question for a moment, I told her, "Thank you, you have just provided me with my only source since the 17th century for its use!"

More than anything, that story shows just how tenuous most herbal lore has become. Riddle is a tireless scholar and an engaging writer, and as his story moves along in chronological order, it begins to read like an official history. But at heart Eve's Herbs is just the opposite: a gathering of nervous confessions and forbidden secrets, committed to paper as proof of a hidden tradition. Like a covey of quail flushed from tall grass, these anguished facts burst from the page with startling life. But they will go back into hiding just as quickly -- back to their old haunts in wives' tales and herbal manuals, midwives' formulas and nursery rhymes.

In the end, maybe that's where they should stay. Medicinal herbs have their uses, but nowadays contraception and abortion needn't be among them. If any one theme runs most plainly through Riddle's history, it is the sheer physical danger family planning once entailed. Even in modern times more than one woman has died from taking too much pennyroyal oil or colocynth powder -- an abortifacient favored by the Egyptians -- and past fatalities must have been much higher. Eve's herbs worked better than physicians were long willing to admit, better than anything science had to offer for thousands of years. But it will be a sad coda to Riddle's tale if many more women begin to use them, just when they should need them least.

Burkhard Bilger is deputy editor of The Sciences.

Article copyright American Botanical Council

Sunday, June 26, 2022

Chapter 25: Anyone can be a Gnostic, if the Spirit makes it so

A post to a Reddit spirituality forum was in my email inbox this Sunday morning. Below are few of many more comments. I have no recollection of how I acquired the Puzzleheaded Drop 81 moniker, but the puzzle part seems to fit. 

Posted byu/saucyT_
In a weird spot with my religious beliefs and not sure what to do.
So I have been christian my whole life and grew up with both sides of my family being christian. I never really questioned anything growing up because honestly nothing ever really crossed my mind. For the past year, I’ve been getting more into spirituality and I find everything about it to be extremely comforting and makes more sense than some of the things I’ve heard from certain christian folks. Now at 19, I’ve been doing more research on the Bible and churches and such and things are really starting to not add up or make sense about christianity.
I really do not want to think this way but I can’t help but feel my intuition. I do certainly believe Jesus Christ was a real person and a lot of events that happened but the whole concept of other things in christianity contradict each other. I tried talking to my dad and he told me that the devil is messing with my mind trying to have me move away from christianity. Not sure what to do right now so some advice would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.

tom63376
Maybe you still are a "Christian", if by 'Christian' you mean a follower of Christ. You could study, research and put into practice the inner, mystical teachings of Jesus and most likely not alienate your family, if that is important to you. After all you are simply following Christ. As Christians, they would most likely respect that you are simply following the directive of Jesus that he repeated in different ways at least 10 times: "If you love me, follow my commandments (my teachings)."
I attended a Methodist church with my wife for years because she felt she got something out of it. Rather than focusing on the contradictions, etc, I focused on what Jesus said. This was very well received by the other traditional members of the congregation. In fact they asked me to teach adult Bible study where I introduced the members to the inner, mystical teachings of Christ. For example: "What do you think Jesus was really telling us when he said, "The kingdom of heaven is within you?" and. "first remove the beam from your own eye."? Or, what are your thoughts when you read: "You are saved by faith alone" and what Jesus said, "But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation."?
These traditional Christians were extremely interested and involved in exploring these kinds of questions at least in part I believe, because I never tried to prove what they believed was wrong. But there did reach a point where I had a strong sense, that I had given them what I could and it was time to leave.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Well said. I think I recall somewhere in the Gospels, Jesus told his disciples to go forth and preach what he had taught them, and where they were not welcome, to leave. There was a time in my journey that I went into quite a few churches and participated in Sunday school discussions.

tom63376
Maybe you still are a "Christian", if by 'Christian' you mean a follower of Christ. You could study, research and put into practice the inner, mystical teachings of Jesus and most likely not alienate your family, if that is important to you. After all you are simply following Christ. As Christians, they would most likely respect that you are simply following the directive of Jesus that he repeated in different ways at least 10 times: "If you love me, follow my commandments (my teachings)."
I attended a Methodist church with my wife for years because she felt she got something out of it. Rather than focusing on the contradictions, etc, I focused on what Jesus said. This was very well received by the other traditional members of the congregation. In fact they asked me to teach adult Bible study where I introduced the members to the inner, mystical teachings of Christ. For example: "What do you think Jesus was really telling us when he said, "The kingdom of heaven is within you?" and. "first remove the beam from your own eye."? Or, what are your thoughts when you read: "You are saved by faith alone" and what Jesus said, "But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation."?
These traditional Christians were extremely interested and involved in exploring these kinds of questions at least in part I believe, because I never tried to prove what they believed was wrong. But there did reach a point where I had a strong sense, that I had given them what I could and it was time to leave.

Long_Repair_8779
The Saint/Guru Neem Karoli Baba once told Krishna Das and some others to meditate like Jesus. They kinda laughed and said ‘what how does Jesus meditate?’. Apparently at that moment it was like all of time stood still, there was complete silence in the air, even the birds flying above seemed to stop mid-air. And as a small tear emerged on the face of Baba, he replied “He just loved”

BaristaSamurai
No matter your religious beliefs, a pure longing for God will open doors that no amount of theology or doctrine could ever hope to do.
I've come to similar conclusions. And have decided without divine help and intervention, I wouldn't make it very far in my spiritual aspirations because of the rampant confusion in spiritual, and especially, religious circles.

manofsands
When I first started to question Christianity, and felt fear and guilt for doing so, I found comfort in the thought that "God made me this way, with a questioning mind... the Truth will remain true. If I search, either the Bible will prove itself, or the truth will start to be revealed"

PatrickTheExplorer
I know how you feel. I've felt the same way while I was growing up. I was raised catholic but as I aged and matured it didn't quite "feel right" and so I explored other religions and spiritualities. I've found it's best if you let your instincts guide you. Don't put too much thought/logic into it... go with your gut, your instincts.

Silver_n_Black
Matthew 7:9-10 says: Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
I then ask, what father would throw his children into the eternal fire?

saucyT_
This was one of the first things I started questioning, but yet I feel fear for questioning God.

Silver_n_Black
Unfortunately that fear is how the church controls people. Before Jesus came around, Judaism taught people that rituals of sacrifice needed to be undertaken to find your way back to God. And those rituals required the services of the religious leaders. But Jesus tried to teach people that these rituals were unnecessary and that forgiveness, non-judgment, and unconditional love were the only ways to come closer to God. However, the religious leaders couldn't use this message to control people and elevate themselves above everyone else, so they had to create a new message centered on sin and unrighteousness. Now with everyone being sinners, they again needed the religious leaders to find their way back to God.
The only way you can find the truth is to look within and trust your intuition.

austensjf
Don’t be afraid! You’re not questioning God! You are only questioning this religion and the book that has some strange contradictions etc. Jesus and God, I truly believe, encourage questioning. They want us to take a hard look at this thing called religion, and someday find a better way. Rise above it, and become one peaceful people on earth.

saucyT
currently on shrooms right now for the 2nd time and wowww it’s like the more i learn the more questions i have. i can’t explain the stuff im seeing right now
and i also have to go to church tomorrow so it’s going to be interesting

austensjf
Good luck tomorrow! There’s no rush to figure this all out. Take your time and learn lots of stuff! You don’t have to tell anyone if you don’t want to. It’s your path!!

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
You have to go to church?

saucyT_
yea it’s my grandma’s birthday and they all want me to go

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Can you go visit your grandmother instead? What does her birthday have to do with going to church? Do she and your family know you are using mushrooms?
Unless you are under the protective wing or an adept shaman, taking psychedelics can open you to just about anything that's "out there", and there are things "out there" that you probably don't want anything to do with, which can latch onto you, unaware to you, and be with you indefinitely, and you may or may not ever know it, or its influence on you.

saucyT_
i’m sober right now and saw some unexplainable things,including a little fairy girl thing? i was laying in the bathroom and she was standing in my chest making sure i was okay, ik it sounds weird. anyways my family has no idea about the shrooms, i did them at a friend’s place and stayed the night. and the reason my family had to go to church for her birthday is cause she’s really religious and it’s one of the things that makes her happy when we’re all together. currently just arrived at church.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
I think it pleases God for us to be kind and attentive to our older relatives, and to all our relatives, unless they are misbehaving and we need to speak to them about that :-). I never used mushrooms, but have known people who swore by them, and I told them, why not just hear directly from the Spirit instead? I know that is not something just anyone can do. I also know psychedelics can open you up to stuff that might look wonderful, because that's what it wants you see, but it has its own agenda for you, which might not be best for you or your soul. Also, if you pretend to be a good Christian, church goer, but really are allegiant to mushrooms, for example, is that a bit of a divide in yourself? It is authentic?

whydoesthishapp3n
only insecure people and narcissists hate to be questioned. The goddess is neither.

whydoesthishapp3n
agreed! that’s the part that never made sense. like damn if you mess up right as the rapture happens you just go to hell?? like even if you were doing good up until then?! and burn for eternity?? it seems like something that was added in because humans didn’t have any incentive. like we’re children who need to be threatened into doing it right thing. also how is it free will if the alternative is burning in hell? seems like an abusive relationship. like hey sweetie you can do whatever you want but if you don’t live exactly how i ask you to i’m going to beat you with a lead pipe. lol. eternal fire is a lot worse. i know in my heart god wouldn’t do that.
Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven." " This is from the gospel of Thomas.
The more you dive in to spirituality you can see everything comes from what we call the soul. Even this reality thus to call blasphemes against the holy spirit is causing you to fall in the trap of reincarnation. Once you can get past this and realize you're equal to the son and farther that they have no bounds to you. The only reason the holy spirit has any hold on us is because it makes up our body and we arn't our bodies.
But another quote "Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole." " Pretty much have blind faith in Jesus or anyone else being true or follow the path Jesus took and understand his logic. It in all honesty his views can be hindu in nature or buddhist. He just molded what he learned in a way for the people he knows could digest it and understand it.

whydoesthishapp3n
you quote the perils of blind faith and then ask OP to have blind faith. I’m confused on whether that’s what you meant to type.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
The Holy Spirit is called Shikenah in Judaism, gender feminine. made male by Christendom. Jesus berated the disciples for not getting what he told them. He also told them he taught them the mysteries of the Kingdom of God in secret. He planted seeds in them. And after Pentecost, the Holy Spirit took them over and grew them into something God could use. Jesus and John the Baptist both said Jesus baptized in fire and in spirit. Jesus said the way to God is difficult and few entered the gate, and many are called but few are chosen, and the work is great and the harvesters are few. Jesus told his disciples, if they abided in  him and his teachings, they would come to know the truth and the truth would set them free. Not a church would set them free , but him and his teachings and the truth. Did Jesus ever build one corporeal church?

36Gig
Keyword set them free. Sounds like to an extent the end goal is not the kingdom of god. " The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's kingdom is like."
He said to them, "It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky." "
If a mustard seed is involved everything kinda clicks for me. The secret of gods kingdome is we are living in it right now. Our "soul" in simple terms is equal to god but force is not possible. Force is a unique aspect of this reality due to rules this reality has since we aren't the body not the matter that makes all this stuff up.
I'm kinda sad this didn't click for me untill now

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81 
What happened to me was I felt, and knew, I was captured by God, and was being turned upside down and inside out and every which a way but loose. It started in early 1987, in my 45th year. I explained how that began in a different comment under this post. It's still in play, this my 80th year. I was opened up in new ways many times. Still happening.

36Gig
Your can't be captured. That's unless you allow your self to get captured.(this is in reference to the soul) Most people believe they are the body thus the soul mirrors the body. Once awakened no one can force you to do anything from the soul level.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Heh, if you lived in my skin, or in the skin of a good friend of mine, about half my age, you very definitely know you can be captured by God :-). Then all that's left is to accept it, and the discipline that accompanies it, or fight it. Fighting it is not recommended, but it appears it is tolerated for a while, but there comes a time when fighting it is no longer tolerated and it's either surrender to it, or be cut loose and deal with the consequences of making that choice, which, after all I've experienced, is not something I care to find out about. I think my younger friend would tell you much the same. We are doing a free, no advertising podcast, where mostly I talk, about matters of heaven and earth. We have received death threats. Two episodes were taken down after being flagged, but the channel provider declined to tell us what exactly was in the episodes that violated the provider's guidelines. Here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpfKctWylzKlGXtz1CssY7w

36Gig
I still disagree with capture but I do agree with accepting it. I'll probably use the term respect more so, but even with respect you don't need to like it.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
See my reply somewhere to RandChick in this discussion, about how my being captured began with a desperate prayer I made to God to help me. Consider also a poem, which fell out of me after I had seriously blown a major spiritual assignment.

SHANGHAIED (2004)
A calling to serve carries its own wisdom,which legitimates both the calling and the serving so that the two are one.
Only the one called to serve can know this wisdom,a nd for some who are called the knowing comes easily, while for others the knowing is a fiery baptism.
Each calling is different,and while some callings can be declined, others cannot, and those whose calling is without repentance know they are in it for the duration of the calling, and while others may try to persuade them out of it,t he calling for ones such as these always prevails.
Thus is it advised to all called for keeps that they view their calling as a blessing even when it seems at times to be a curse, and that they try to reconcile the loss of their captain status, and allow the Spirit of God to man the helm of their ship, and be glad and willing crew members thereon, knowing that all sailing ships of souls need a crew as well as a captain to maintain and navigate the ship through seas of many tones, depths and flavors.
So consider each league sailed as part of the overall journey, going to where the captain deigns to go by using whatever winds and sea currents available to navigate the ship to the experiences this ship and crew need to have in order to fulfill their calling and its wisdom revealed by the journey of many leagues, many known only to the ship and its crew, all of whom come to know, some sooner than others, that once conscripted, there is no safe jumping ship.

Also, look up Rumi's poem, "The Chickpea.

Grand_chump
Read books, open your mind. There is so much you dont know, and you dont know that you dont know it. Seek truth and it will find you.
Autobiography of a yogi Life and teachings of the masters of the far east

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Excellent book, Yoganada’s autobiography. However,I think this seeker need look no further than how Jesus and the Holy Spirit taught, grilled, roasted and refined the disciples in the New Testament. That is this seeker’s root spirituality, which will not go away if he adopts a new path, although reading Yogananda’s book might help this seeker appreciate church is something very different than a building or religion. It’s a state of being.

allthaticansay
The next best thing to knowing the ultimate truth is seeking it.This book is just the spark that will get people talking about the real truth.
Excerpt from The Present, a book about life and spirituality, available free online.

charmzmander
That book is a really good read! Here is the version that includes the religious perspective: The Present (With Religion) I’m currently reading this and I really like their interpretation of the Bible.

RandChick
If you believe in God, pray to God and ask for enlightenment and guidance.Focus on having direct experiences with God and that might influence where you go from here.(I am a Christian and have had direct and unmistakable mystical experiences with God and Christ).

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Good advice.
I was a Christian, it didn't work for me, or more accurately, I did not work for it, and I plunged into the New Age and went through it pretty fast and learned some things, but I realized it wasn't fixing me. In early 1987, I concluded I was at the end of my rope, out of bright ideas, had failed in every way a man could fail. In that state, I prayed one day, "Dear God, I do not want to die like this, failed. Please help me." I paused, added, "I offer my life to human service." About ten days later, I woke in the wee hours maybe around 2 am, and saw two ethics beings hovering in the darkness above me. Shaped like shifts, white, tinge of blue. I heard plainly, but not with my ears, "This will push you to your limits, but you asked for it and we are going to give it to you." I recalled the prayer I'd made. I saw a white flash and my body was jolted by something electrical. That happened two more times. The beings dissolved. I was shaking all over, sweating. That's how it began. Slow at first, but inexorable. Many phases. Lots of courses in being stood before mirrors. Eventually, I came to understand the two beings were Jesus and Archangel Michael. Later, Melchizedek joined them. The training got much rougher, Even later, Kali joined them, and the training ramped up again. I'm in my 80th year. Still being trained. I was pushed many times beyond what I thought were my limits. Still being pushed. Thousands and thousands of direct experiences with not of this world entities. I took no LSD, no peyote, no ayahuasca, no nothing.I was taken back into Christendom and the Bible, and shown new ways of looking at Bible passages, and was shown Bible passages I had not considered, especially the Letter to the Hebrews. I was taken through all of that and came to know God is far bigger than any religion on this planet. I came to know Evil, Lucifer, demons, are very real. I came to know ETs and less physical extraterrestrial beings are very real. I came to think I'm always in church. Throughout it all I felt like I was not from this planet, in the sense there were very few people I could relate to about such matters. Currently, there are two such people, whom I know well.One of them, about half my age, and I have being doing a podcast, where mostly I speak and tell stories. We have received death threats. Podcast episodes get flagged regularly. Two episodes were taken down by the provider, which declined to tell us what part of the episodes violated the provider's guidelines. Here's al link to the podcast.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpfKctWylzKlGXtz1CssY7w

wma4891
I'm a spiritual atheist, but grew up in Christianity. Just follow your intuition, otherwise you'll never be satisfied. We're constantly learning, growing, and changing. We don't have to be static in our beliefs to follow the status quo. You do you and be honest with yourself.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81

I sometimes have told atheists, if there were no God, then the question of whether God exists would never come up :-). I have had God's existence, and angels, and the Devil, and demons, and ETs, and more etheric beings proven to me so many times, that I know they exist, and I also know I cannot prove they exist, nor can anyone prove they don't exist. I was taught what is important is how people live and behave. That's the sum of it. Be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, Bushist, Taoist, new Age, Atheist, or whatever.

wakingup1245
Always follow your intuition it is never wrong, but don’t get your intuition mistaken with your ego because your ego is always wrong

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Almost always, and sometimes, or more often, it is very easy to mistake the ego for intuition. In the fall of 1995, a familiar voice told me in my sleep, "It is very easy to mistake Lucifer for the Holy Spirit." I woke up generally terrified :-). I never forgot hearing that, though.

wakingup1245
You’re right, what do you suggest to do to separate the two apart?

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
In my case, I'm ridden hard by angels known in the Bible. They let me know when I'm messing up. Sometimes they wait a while to let me know, hoping, I suppose, I will figure it out on my own. Sometimes they let me wallow in something I messed up, hoping, I wonder, if it will teach me not to do it again. Basically, the ego, like the Devil, which is very real, as are demons, tell us what we want to hear about ourselves, about our interests, goals, dreams, crusades, etc. Whereas, in my case, the angels tell me what they think I need to hear, even though it is the very last thing I want to hear. I have a lot of training in psycho-spiritual healing, and in being disciplined by angels, which are two very different but still related arenas. Every adult human being, as far as I have seen, has deep soul programming, and deep wounding and trauma. Most of the trauma is rooted in childhood, but it can occur later. And, it could be from a past life, karma, etc. Ditto, the programming. This wounding and programming live inside us, and speak to us in their own ways, and that influences us without out our knowing. The conscious mind is about 10 percent of our total consciousness? What's the other 90 percent doing without our knowing? What's the Devil and demons doing without out knowing? So, if you are capable of receiving input from the Spirit, say during meditation or dreams or visons, or just in "ah has", stick with that, and with asking for ongoing input to help you along your way. If you do not have such experiences, then simply try to live as good and true as you can, and try not to harm anyone else, and try to help those who are open to help, and try to be kind to Mother Earth. Do not, if possible, get caught, as in trapped, in a religious sect (some might say cult) that says it has all the answers. Only God has all the answers. Likewise, I don't belong to political parties, or to any social sect that thinks it knows the way to God or what is best for everyone. There is an old Sufi saying, which I think all religious people should ponder: "Let God kill him who himself does not know but presumes to show others the way to the door of His kingdom."

wakingup1245
Thank you for thisπŸ™πŸ½ this was very enlightening and will for sure stick with me through my journey

jollygaygiant_
Have you considered gnosticism. It's a spiritual path to Christianity. The easiest place to start would be YouTube and then reading the Nag Hammadi scriptures. That's where I've settled between following Christ while understanding that He comes from the Almighty God and not the god of this world. Reading the gospels from a spiritual perspective also makes it easier to come to terms with it.

Puzzleheaded_Drop_81
Gnosticism recognized spark of God in everyone, and seeks the direct experience with that I grew up calling God, and moving deeper into God, knowing that God exists. The direct experience is very different from believing, reading the Bible or other spiritual texts, be they related to Christendom or to another religion. Christians can be Gnostics. Anyone can be a Gnostic, if the Spirit makes it so.

sloanbashinsky@yahoo.com

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